Another Remixed album- Mind Games?

Discussions related to John Lennon as Beatle and his solo career.

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Postby Steve-o » Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:04 am

I honestly dismiss NYC because the lyrics are daft and it's a weak attempt at being hip and political. Success or sales have nothing to with it. I like it when pop/rock recording artists stick to what they do best--create nice pop/rock songs that have some nice melodic qualities. This album has neither. Mind Games just was below standard for John and he was caplable of far better work and production. A few nice songs, but that's about it. It still sounds rushed and unfinished to me.
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Postby theDingle » Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:30 pm

I agree, steve-O, SINYC is a turkey. It had a real anger vibe, which can be a workable idea, but it didn't work here. He used the G__ d___ word over and over in John Sinclair, which today probably wouldn't raise much controversy, but it still isn't something I care to mellow out with. John had a tendency to overstate and overkill.

Some of the music did have potential...the music of the aforementioned John Sinclair. I liked Woman Is The Nigger Of The World musically, but there again, the words, while very true IMO, were a bit much. There was another one but I can't recall how it goes anymore.

Sometimes when artists start to burn out on ideas they grab at anything and try to make it go, but it just don't go! I think his political-radicalism angle on SINYC was one of those no-go phases.

Generally the overall lyrical tone and then the vibe signed the death warrant for this one. I wouldn't doubt the sales stats bear out that it was an all-time low seller.
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Postby Harry » Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:16 am

Nevertheless I like it. I think it has some great melodies on it like Angela and We're All Water. I think the lyrics are harsh because that's how John and Yoko thought was the best way to communicate their messages. This album was not an attempt to be recognised as artistes per se. I actually find some of the lyrics quite funny eg if you had the luck of the irish, you'd be sorry and wish you was dead, if you had the luck of the irish, then you'd wish you was english instead. That always cracks me up. Also on Sunday Bloody Sunday the lyrics are quite brilliant imo, especially the part where he sings leave ireland to the irish, not for london or for rome. Here he is having a go at the British and the Pope and I totally agree with him. I guess you have to like John to like this album.
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Postby theDingle » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:36 pm

quote:Originally posted by Harry
I guess you have to like John to like this album.Well, I try to give credit where I can--but your final statement is true enough--I fully admit that I'm not as forgiving on John's bloopers as I am with Paul's. [:I] There are a few of Paul's substandard efforts that I gloss over where I wouldn't with John.
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Postby Steve-o » Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:28 pm

I love John...but absolutely hate STINYC. I'm a bigger Paul fan, WAD, but I still can't stand "mary had a", little woman love and several others.
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Postby Harry » Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:03 am

I judge the music based on what they were trying to do. John with SINYC and Paul with Wings. I like Paul with Wings even some of the stuff you just mentioned because they were doing stuff they wanted to do and that's not going to please everyone ATB (After the Beatles)
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Postby theDingle » Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:59 pm

quote:Originally posted by Harry
I judge the music based on what they were trying to do.I can see your point, Harry. In in a way your opinion is more objective, mine more subjective.

However, SINYC is a 70s protest record, and IMO, Dylan laid the blueprint for how a protest record works: pithy yet subtle statements, which require more mental effort than merely tossing off profanity to emphasize the injustice. Dylan was awesome in this respect, and I think it also was an indication of high intelligence, so I don't think doing so was beyond John's ability.

I suppose the argument could be made that Lennon was unique by inserting "f___", "Ch___", G__ d___", and whatever other words considered profane to use, (I can't recall any other rock artist getting away with it back then except for Steppenwolf) but to me that's a cop-out. Subtlety succeeds in really making the point even to the opposition, whereas otherwise, it's all comes off as just blow. (Ditto for Paul in Big Boys Bickering.)

I ain't no prude, but when it comes to music with an edge, I prefer it not in the lyrics, but sonically, which Lennon at times could be quite good at (Yer Blues, Cold Turkey, etc.)
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Postby Harry » Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:18 am

I know what you're saying Dingle and you are right but what's the point of displaying wit and intelligence if the only people who will be impressed are Rolling Stone critics?

If you're trying to draw the attention of the masses to a cause or an issue you strongly believe in being abit controversial will get you noticed. I honestly don't have a problem with that. Imagine has quite possibly the best lyrics ever written, I already know what John can do and I know he wasn't trying to do an Imagine with SINYC.

Also, in retrospect eveything he said about Ireland and the Nixon administration was on the money. For some reason they considered him powerful enough to start bugging him. It made a difference, possibly at the cost of his artistic cred but he didn't give a s**t.

I agree with your statement about using profanity in lyrics, it cheapens the message. Use of the word 'nigger' in WITNOTW is too strong for my tastes, I don't like hearing it, he should have thought about that abit more, but use of the word f*** in Working Class Hero for example is appropriate and adds potency to the songs meaning.
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Postby theDingle » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:48 pm

True Harry, WHAT he sang was on the money, I'm mainly talking about HOW he sang it. I was of course against his deportation. This is true: I even requested and received from his attorney's office one of those petitions in favor of his visa that I circulated in my podunk redneck high school and mailed back, lol! I can't quite remember if they ever expressed thanks---I think they might have sent a letter of appreciation, but I don't have it anywhere nowadays.

I actually got their address from ROLLINGSTONE,---but those music critics?--HATED 'EM! Especially Dave Marsh, UGH! That dude had some funky brain cells all in their own orbit. It was usually an unwitting accident when they gave a good album a good review.

ROLLINGSTONE's sanction meant nothing, any rank and file such as us can recognize an artist's cleverness if we're looking for it. [;)] [:D]
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Postby Harry » Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:00 am

Those critics say things about the music as though the artist was actually thinking that when they really have no idea. Most artists did not get a university education and the reviewers just fill up space with crap. It's like they're frustrated writers that can't get a book published. They over intellectualise the meanings behind every note and lyric.

That's why I like SINYC. It's very direct and every critic is going to hate it.
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