Imagine Documentary

Discussions related to John Lennon as Beatle and his solo career.

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Postby Ram1 » Sat Jun 22, 2002 7:35 pm

[qoute]well he certainly didn't have much to do with his son Julian....and that disturbs me[/qoute]

Right. It's always bothered me about Julian, sure. In fact, we've had many posts on the subject of John, Julian, and Yoko and Julian's relationship. But see, like you said, John matured a lot by the time Sean was born. Also, he reached out to Julian in those final years as well. We've all made mistakes, and fortunately, John saw the error of his ways and felt extremely guilty. That's why he tried to right some wrongs.

quote: Paul didn't have any huge Peace causes or anything but he was always gentle and kind to everyone....creating peace in his own environment--doing it where it was POSSIBLE.. like think globally act locally..ya dig?


Yeah, I dig. Of course Paul has been a GIANT humanitarian. No question.



Edited by - Ram1 on 06/22/2002 19:37:06
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Postby Klunk » Sat Jun 22, 2002 7:38 pm

I think, unquestionably, John was a genius songwriter. But when it comes to judging people you should judge them by what they do, not by what they say. I think John was more of a say-er than a do-er. If you look at Paul's personal relationships and how he bought his children up then he was truer to himself than John. I think How Do You Sleep was unacceptably cruel and if John had been honest he would have regretted it, the fact that George was on it as well just rubs salt into the wounds. One of the most interesting parts of the film was when John was talking positively about a possible Beatles reunion.

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Postby Ram1 » Sat Jun 22, 2002 7:39 pm

I agree with most of what you said. But you also gotta remember that 'How Do You Sleep?' was actually John's reply to 'Too Many People.'
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Postby Klunk » Sat Jun 22, 2002 7:54 pm

True, but he certainly upped the stakes! The important thing is that Paul's reply to Too Many People was Dear Friend which helped patch things up and in documentry he said the important thing is how Paul and me are, and Paul and me are just fine. I remember hearing an interview with Harry Nilsson who said he was with John in NY and John was wearing an old Beatles badge that said 'I Love Paul' and a fan said to John 'Why are you wearing that?', John's reply, 'Cos I do love Paul'.

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Postby Brains » Sun Jun 23, 2002 7:09 am

quote:
quote:
No, Liam, you misread it. Brains was saying that John said most of the words were WRITTEN BY Allen Klein and Yoko. But as far as John saying that the song could have been about himself....HA! That's a bunch of blarney right there if you ask me!! How on earth could that song be about anybody but Paul? It's a BLATANT song about Paul.


The references to Pepper and Yesterday certainly suggest that! I reckon John was just confused!



Of course the song is basically about Paul. The only thing you've done was yesterday, and since you're gone you're just another day... That's Paul.
I think what John meant was that he was bashing Paul but by doing so he was actually bashing himself. Or something. John got kinda carried away with the song, and didn't realise that it was in fact extremely nasty until it was too late. I forgive him. It's just who he is. Remember the bigger-than-Jesus-comment? He just spoke before he thought, and often people got hurt, but he didn't really mean it.
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Postby Liam OSM » Sun Jun 23, 2002 10:11 am

quote:
John matured a lot by the time Sean was born. Also, he reached out to Julian in those final years as well.


Didn't Julian make an appearance on Walls & Bridges, on "Ya Ya"?

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Postby Brains » Sun Jun 23, 2002 10:26 am

What did he do? He was only eleven years old at the time.
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Postby Steve-o » Sun Jun 23, 2002 10:53 am

Julian played the drums, like most 11 year olds, I might add. It was a throw away track.
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Postby karly » Sun Jun 23, 2002 12:06 pm

[/qoute]


I think what John meant was that he was bashing Paul but by doing so he was actually bashing himself. Or something. John got kinda carried away with the song, and didn't realise that it was in fact extremely nasty until it was too late. I forgive him. It's just who he is. Remember the bigger-than-Jesus-comment? He just spoke before he thought, and often people got hurt, but he didn't really mean it.


[/quote]

ok the bigger than Jesus comment was made in the matter of seconds...

now to write a ong...rehearse it....record it...wait for the album to come out... we're talking MONTHS to change his mind! He thought about it for WAY too long...it's pre-meditated nastiness!

and KLUNK? You said WAY better than I ever could!

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Postby Klunk » Sun Jun 23, 2002 3:11 pm

Karly, you're right HDYS was pretty premeditated and he had plenty of time to withdraw it, but remember there were a lot of people around John who also had an axe to grind with Paul. Allen Klien who hated Paul for taking legal action against him, Yoko who may have been insecure about John and Paul's close relationship, George for feeling that he was belittled in The Beatles and Phil Spector who probably resented Paul's critism of his production of Let It Be. So it wasn't only John's doing. Paul's restraint in all this has to be admired. To row with someone is natural but to put these thoughts down on vinyl for public consumption is, shall we say, regretable.

You have a seperate thread about Let Me Roll It whether its a tribute to John or a continuation of the fued, well I don't know! The only coment I've heard from Paul is that it is neither and the similarity in styles is just a coincident, but I think they both must of had a wry smile about it.

Just to continue this theme does anyone think that the title track from 'Tug of War' could be about Paul and John's relationship?

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