Lennon was a "swine" - Paul deserves props

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Lennon was a "swine" - Paul deserves props

Postby Chris Speers » Thu Apr 04, 2002 9:57 pm

Paul deserves his proper respect. John Lennon was a swine when he was alive as Paul said to Hunter Davis. And he was and is 100% right. No matter how much i love Lennon and his music. Facts are facts and grizzled old rock critics try to destroy Macca's legacy with their snide comments. Lennon's crimes...too numerous

HE Stabbed McCartney in the back by

1) going with a manager who was a crook
2) allowed other forces to destroy his friendship with Paul
3) continued to bash Paul whenever given "bloody" opportunity
4) total insecure in his genius and thought by mouthing off on Paul he would certify his legend
5) How do you sleep ?? Need i say more..
6) Paul wrote a song --a good one to ease Julian's pain - For that the man should be grateful?? What the hell??


Yoko actually think Paul was Salieri and John was mozart. Pulease. They were equals - but one was not greater than the other

Don't get me wrong - Lennon was great but as a person - Paul was right. he was a "swine"
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Postby pc31 » Fri Apr 05, 2002 12:07 am

that is one mans opinion.

all we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
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Postby Ram1 » Fri Apr 05, 2002 12:10 pm

Well, first of all, I find it hard to generalize and just call John Lennon a "swine." Sure, he may have made a lot of wrong decisions, but he also did a lot of good for peace and humanitarianism. Especially as he grew older, he cared very deeply for people, and he contributed to charity after charity. Furthermore, at the end of his life, he became very at peace and in touch with himself, and from everything I've read, made peace with Paul, and even grew closer to Julian. I believe in forgiveness, and you can't blame a guy for what he did when he was younger, if when he got older, he changed. But after saying all this, yes I agree that Lennon did some questionable things that made me feel a little differently about him. Like barging into Paul and Linda's house and putting his foot through a painting he gave Paul when he was upset because Paul didn't show up for a recording session, but instead stayed home with Linda to celebrate their anniversery or something. But even then, it was supposedly Paul's fault because he left everyone hanging at the studio and didn't bother to call to say he wasn't coming in. And it also always bothered me that John would kind of downplay Macca's talent and genius. Yes, I think he was insecure in his talents and genius. Even George Martin himself admitted that he thinks John was jealous of Paul because melodies came so easily to Paul, and John really had to work at it. But regardless, those wounds were healed. And John Lennon changed as he matured. So I find it pretty hard to call John Lennon a swine. By the way, you have to remember that "How do you sleep?" was actually a response to McCartney's "Too Many People."
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Postby Chris Speers » Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:24 pm

You may not remember but it was Paul who called John a "Swine" to Hunter Davis, the first Beatle Biography shortly after John's death.

It's true that John warmed up to Julian but Julian is still quite bitter about his dad and his lack of emotional love from his father.

Ram 1, you are right i in that "How do you Sleep" was a direct response to "Too many People" but it went outside the lines of decency and respect and his calling Paul "Englebert Humperdink of Rock" was pretty lame. In addition, John's tacit approval in allowing an outsider like Allen Klein and other NY lawyers to split up from Paul and all that jealousy and anger and bitterness was really uncalled for.

In addition, Lennon became the critics darling and resulted in Paul's legacy in the BEatles being significantly re-written. How about the five or six year wait Paul endured with Rock n roll hall of fame.

If your own son thinks you were a selfish bastard, that's not a good legacy for John Lennon to leave. You think Macca's kids think that way. No way, they love the old man - can't picture a better family guy. Even as a child, Julian probably felt closer to Paul than his own dad cause at least he paid attention to him while John was out shooting heroin and making nude photos with his girlfriend.

As i said, Lennon is an artistic genius but as a person - he was not an ideal father or friend.
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Postby Ram1 » Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:15 pm

I agree on several points, Chris. I always felt extremely sorry for Julian. Especially the pain he had to endure watching Sean get slobbered over by John and Yoko, when he didn't even get a quarter of that attention. It must have been rough. But you have to remember, Cynthia's pregnancy with Julian was an "accident". It came when John was still very immature, plus he was smack dab in the middle of trying to get The Beatles on track. But of course, that is still no excuse for neglecting your son. I'm just glad John felt guilty about it, and eventually reached out to Jules towards the end of his life. And again I agree, I think John could tend to be a jerk at times. However, I know a guy who's cousin is Tony Davilio, the man who did the arrangements on Double Fantasy. And to this day, Tony has the most heart-warming stories about his days with John and even....yes Yoko. Even to this day Yoko still sends he and his family Christmas cards and such. Don't get me wrong, I'm not really sticking up for Yoko. I think the way she has supposedly handled things with Paul and Julian is atrocious. (Like how she sent Julian a like 25 cent royalty check. Julian was so shocked that he actually keeps it framed on a wall in his house.) But I'm just saying, there can be different sides to people at different times.
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Postby shorty » Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:07 pm

First and formost, Paul and John loved each other, to the depths of the earth. However that doesn't mean they liked each other.
All you have to do is whach the let it be documentary. Paul and john truly cared for one another, you could totally see it. Unfortunatley outside forces tried so hard to plot them against one another. Swine, yes maybe so but that doesn't mean that paul doesn't love him.
Face it we all love our famlies, but we don't alway's like them, not at all.

so long see ya never
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Postby Chris Speers » Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:25 pm

Shorty, I agree with your post that they didn't always like each other. There were a few moments in Let it Be when brotherly love came into being. But I got the sense that john was so high on heroin or whatever he was taking that he viewed Paul with contempt. Especially the scene where Paul is urging John to join him in touring little clubs like the old days to get their feel back. John hear him but he quickly tunes him out -
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Postby crozzauk » Sat Apr 13, 2002 10:31 am

I would say John has the edge on Macca lyrically, but I dont know of anybody in the history of popular music in the 20th century who can construct a melody like Paul McCartney. In my eyes Paul had musical vision way beyond any of the other three, and I would say he was more influential musically in guiding the group than John was.
The fact is they complimented each other so well, learning from each other, helping each other, that you cannot seperate them, in the Beatles they were a unit so good, it will never be matched or beaten. I reckon this really annoys Yoko Ono, as she would like to be known as Johns best partner, hence her constant attempts to undermine Maccas contribution to the band, and over-inflate the importance of lennons solo material.
I absolutely agree that Paul doesnt get half the respect he deserves as a solo artist and for his Beatles contributions. I have friends who simply dismiss macca as crap, but who love lennon, and if you ask for reasons why they cannot give any in terms of songs. It is because they've read something somewhere about how good lennon is, they've heard Imagine, they remember the frog chorus, and theyve heard people mock Mull Of Kintyre.
Obviously death always helps an artist (who was talking about Georges music before he died?????), as it imortalises them in peoples minds, but one of the reasons is that Paul has never released a really good greatest hits album. I find that people who have taken the time to get into his work, listen to his albums, understand that he doesnt have a good quality control button and occasionally writes (very) duff songs and lyrics, these people will always rate macca as a songwriter over lennon.
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Postby MarthaMyDear » Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:32 am

AHH! John Lennon was not a swine. I mean yea, he did some questionable things, but jeez, to call him that? I don't think Paul really thinks that way though, he definitely doesn't in fact. You can just tell by the way he talks about John now. He loves him, I saw that when i saw him in concert a few days ago, when he CRIED while singing Here Today for him. Most of the things they did to each other were because they really loved each other and were very bitter about the other leaving the other(does that make sense, lol?). John made his mistakes, but he really did care about people and was repairing his relationships with all of his estranged before he died. He made up with Paul even. I think John was greatful to Paul, but he wasn't one to let his emotions show, except when Yoko made him....even he said that(not the Yoko thing, the showing emotion). But my opinion is that John was definitely NOT a swine.

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Postby stocktonwood » Sun May 12, 2002 2:21 pm

I'm thinking that john probably could be quite a jerk sometimes and that paul probably got pretty upset, but I agree that they loved each other. they loved each other very much and they are the greatest musical partners ever. that is probably why yoko dislikes paul so much.but I also think that paul should get alot more credit than he has in the past. john's death really did create alot of his legacy. I mean think about it, he became like a rockn'roll martyr. I agree that alot of his music is phenomenal and I love it to death, but he wasn't doing anything so wonderful that it could eclipse paul. Alot of critics complain that paul's music isn't deep enough. No layers, no angst, no conflict. But think about it, if you were a totally rich rock star, adored by millions,with a beautiful wife, whom you loved dearly, a great brood of kids and an overall great life, how much conflict and angst could you have? I think paul was a great contributor to the beatles legacy, he is the greatest melodic genius ever. no one, not even lennon can hold a candle to his musically ability.
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