Amnesty International

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Amnesty International

Postby Mike » Tue Nov 05, 2002 11:34 am

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Amnesty International

Postby Mike » Tue Nov 05, 2002 11:34 am

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Postby Chris Speers » Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:26 am

If we're posting issues around Amnesty, first, i think they do a lot of good. However, their stand on the death penalty is so wrong it's criminal. Secondly, they are so wrong for taking the U.S. to task for the Death Penalty. While i think Amnesty does excellent work for human rights and people jailed for their political views, i think Amnesty is way, way off base for thinking that the Washington Snipers are political prisoners and should be given life instead of the death penalty which those scumbags so rightfully deserve. All i know is this about the death penalty - those two dirt bags will never hurt anybody again. Amnesty cheapens itself when it elects to try to stop us from rightfully administering final justice for cop-killers, baby killers, serial murders, and war criminals.
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Postby Chris Speers » Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:17 am

By the way, if Paul supported the 9/11 concert, he should have the decency to support the rightful use of force against Iraq and other members of the terrorist cell. As our great neighbors in England, help us pass the UN Resolution to take down Saddam. I think McCartney owes it to the firefighters and the cops (who gave him a badge) to do the right thing and support President Bush's rightful crusade against terrorism. Hopefully, he will and not hide behind some ambigous "Peace is all u need" kind of lame cop out. Our military dudes will need all the support they can get!!
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Postby Mike » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:51 pm

One thing I'm gonna say killing is killing. Whether you kill a cop, a bank teller, a little girl, a homosexual or someone who is jewish, black or any other race to be considered a "hate crime".

I am totally against "hate crime" laws. In my view it is total stupidity for lawmakers to react to the emotions of the day in order to look good and get votes by creating separate laws and punishments for specialized and classifying killing. You take a life, that is pretty clear. The only degree should be if it wasn't intentional such as manslaughter in a car accident and so on. There are already laws for murder, law enforcement and prosecutors/judicial system should concentrate on bringing to justice actually guilty parties and stop going for the conviction count. Too many innocent people are being charge and convicted of crimes they did not commit in the name of solving cases and furthering the careers of prosecutors.

No one here says Paul is or is not in support of what may happen in Iraq. Just because Paul supports amnesty international surely doesn't mean he agrees 100% to every policy. Just don't assume unless you have interview excerpts of him discussing this. I clearly take offense to your claim that "Paul should have the decency" to do this and do that. Paul doesn't owe the cops, firefighter or fans anything. As he is a huge public figure, his opinion though is held in higher regard than, let say yours and mine. He doesn't owe us anything.
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Postby Chris Speers » Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:56 pm

I disagree with you Mike. Once Paul took that badge (shield from the cops) and once he totally supported the firefighters, he sort of implied that he was one of them. At the COncert for 9/11, Paul became one of them. As a result, it is my belief that Macca owes them their support. So, if one of the firefighter brother organization needs help like for a gala for raising money, Paul should come through for them more so than for PETA or Land-mines. He can't be with them when it was political expedient one minute and then forget the cause a short-time later. Also, because he stated the Irish connection and me dad was a firefighter, he owes the cops and firefighter's his loyality and support.

And he should support the U.S. and England's position on the Terrorist front - to not do so, that would be sort of lame and disingenous in my opinion and really phony.... There is no greater just cause than eliminating the terrorist cells that exist in the Middle East - and that's what the concert for 9/11's legacy should be. Otherwise, Paul is just another sort of phony celebrity who sticks around for the publicity and doesn't support the cause and we know he is not like that - he is better than that.
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Postby Mike » Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:57 pm

1 - he owes nothing to anyone except his family.

2 - you still haven't pointed to anything he said that says he doesn't support the war against terror.

I agree with the war against terror and I see you do to. Just don't put words in Paul's mouth.
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Postby maccastheman » Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:25 pm

quote:Originally posted by Mike
One thing I'm gonna say killing is killing. Whether you kill a cop, a bank teller, a little girl, a homosexual or someone who is jewish, black or any other race to be considered a "hate crime".

I am totally against "hate crime" laws. In my view it is total stupidity for lawmakers to react to the emotions of the day in order to look good and get votes by creating separate laws and punishments for specialized and classifying killing. You take a life, that is pretty clear. The only degree should be if it wasn't intentional such as manslaughter in a car accident and so on. There are already laws for murder, law enforcement and prosecutors/judicial system should concentrate on bringing to justice actually guilty parties and stop going for the conviction count. Too many innocent people are being charge and convicted of crimes they did not commit in the name of solving cases and furthering the careers of prosecutors.




I agree with you about hate-crimes laws. When you get into those types of laws, the state begins to control thought. That is rather frightening. Whatever the motivation is behind a crime, it's still a crime. I'm against speech codes, censorship, etc. - and I'm completely against state-sponsered thought control. That's what goes on in totalitarian states.

Actions are another story. I'm glad they caught that Eric Rudolph bastard. He bombed a gay nightclub in Atlanta, killed a man at an abortion clinic, and set off a bomb at the 1996 olympics. He's no better than Bin Laden's bunch. He deserves to go to jail for life - but we already have laws on the books against murder, etc.

I am against the death penalty. I grew up in a fundamentalist church, so the death penalty didn't really bother me when I was younger. As I've gotten older, it's one of the things I've re-examined. I do resent Amnesty and other European elitist organizations harping on the U.S. all of the time when far, far worse things are being done in the Middle East, China, and other parts of the globe. We're just easy to pick on because of our size.
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Postby Brains » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:47 am

Maybe it's got something to do with the fact that America is a much more civilised country than China or Middle-Eastern countries (no offence to any chinese or middle-easterns). So we Europeans kinda 'expect' it from them, but we're amazed that America, which is so much like Europe, still has the death penalty.

I didn't really understand the 'hate crime law' thingy. Is that when you kill a little girl you get a higher penalty than when you kill that Rudolph guy, or Mark &%$#!! Chapman? In Holland a famous and very popular politician was murdered last year, and the killer got 18 years (12 with good behaviour), because he hadn't offended before. It would have been life if he had a record. So no hate crime law applied there, I guess.
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Postby maccastheman » Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:48 am

Hate-crime laws are designed to give bigger sentences to people who committ crimes against certain groups of people, i.e. Gays, Blacks, Jews, etc. The problem is the state has to prove the crime was committed simply because the person was gay, black, Jewish, etc. I, of course, am completely against bigotry and the like, but I think it's dangerous to set aside so many different punishments for crimes against so many different ethnic/minority groups. Crimes are crimes regardless of the motivation. Hate-crime laws require that the state determine the thought process of a criminal before the crime was committed. To me, the action is the crime. I don't care what the thug was thinking. Prosecuting thought is not something the state should be getting into.
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