Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Discussions of various topics about Paul not covered in the forums below.

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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby Mike » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:06 pm

Instead of guessing what some may think the criteria used by RRHOF, I've put together these stats from the site. This way comparisons can be done more fairly.

- Total number of groups inducted: 92
- Total number of individuals inducted: 196
- Total number of people inducted: 605
- Link to all inductees (alphabetical): http://rockhall.com/inductees/alphabetical/

Artists inducted more than once:
* Eric Clapton (3x)
The Yardbirds (’92), Cream (’93) and Solo (’00)
* Clyde McPhatter (2x)
Solo (’87) and the Drifters (’88)
* George Harrison (2x)
The Beatles (‘88) and Solo (‘04)
* Paul McCartney (2x)
The Beatles (’88) and Solo (’99)
* John Lennon (2x)
The Beatles (’88) and Solo (’94)
* Paul Simon (2x)
Simon and Garfunkel (’90) and Solo (’01)
* David Crosby (2x)
The Byrds (’91) and Crosby, Stills & Nash (’97)
* Curtis Mayfield (2x)
The Impressions (’91) and Solo (’99)
* Jimmy Page (2x)
The Yardbirds (’92) and Led Zeppelin (’95)
* Jeff Beck (2x)
The Yardbirds (’92) and Solo (’09)
* Neil Young (2x)
Solo (’95) and Buffalo Springfield (’97)
* Michael Jackson (2x)
The Jackson 5 (’97) and Solo (’01)
* Stephen Stills (2x)
Crosby, Stills & Nash (’97) and Buffalo Springfield (’97)
* Graham Nash (2x)
Crosby, Stills & Nash (’97) and the Hollies (’10)
* John Carter (2x)
The Flamingos (’01) and the Dells (’04)
* Sammy Strain (2x)
O’Jays (’05) and Little Anthony & the Imperials (’09)

What is the process for induction? or this link: http://rockhall.com/inductees/induction-process/
Leaders in the music industry joined together in 1983 to establish the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation. One of the Foundation’s many functions is to recognize the contributions of those who have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll by inducting them into the Hall of Fame.

There are four main categories of inductees: Performers, Non-Performers, Early Influences and, as of the year 2000, Side-men. The Foundation also occasionally bestows an award for Lifetime Achievement.

Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist’s contribution to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll.

The Foundation’s nominating committee, composed of rock and roll historians, selects nominees each year in the Performer category. Ballots are then sent to an international voting body of about 1,000 rock experts. Those performers who receive the highest number of votes, and more than 50 percent of the vote, are inducted. The Foundation generally inducts five to seven performers each year.

The special selection committee elects the inductees in two other categories: Non-Performers include songwriters, producers, disc jockeys, record executives, journalists and other industry professionals who have had a major influence on the development of rock and roll; Early Influences are artists whose music predated rock and roll but had an impact on the evolution of rock and roll and inspired rock’s leading artists.

Side-men honors those musicians who have spent their career out of the spotlight, performing as backup musicians for major artists on recording sessions and in concert. They they often play a key role in the creation of memorable music, but the public rarely knows them by name. A separate committee, composed primarily of producers, selects the inductees in this category.
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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby Lazarus_2 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:23 am

It's very clear that the Wings sound is the Paul McCartney sound, which is why throughout his solo career you can hear bits and pieces of a Wings-Like sound.
No-doubt the people who are voting on these things see it this way, which is why Wings has not been inducted yet. Paul's already in.
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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby maccafan » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:17 pm

No one is talking about each seperate member of Wings, Wings deserves to be in the Hall of fame for their entire body of work, regardless of members. It's the whole of what was accomplished!

Here's a very important point yet again, no other group in the history of rock had to follow the freaking Beatles!!

Added pressure, they had to follow with a member of the Beatles! Who else had to do that?

Not even the other Beatles did it, or even attempted to do it, especially back in the day!

Now to have massive worldwide success, #1 singles, #1 albums, then break and set world records, become the second biggest group in the whole era of the 70s, are you kidding me, without a doubt they belong in the rock hall of fame!
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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby RickStark79 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:34 pm

But Wings started after Paul had two successful albums and a #1 single, so I think you overvalue the whole following the Beatles things. Paul had already found out that he could have success post-Beatles by the time Wings started up.
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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby maccafan » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:32 pm

Rickstark79, what does that have to do with Wings?

Remember Wings first album Wildlife bombed bigtime, so McCartneys earlier success had absolutely nothing to do with Wings!

Wings had to work their way up, they had to grind it out, they had to earn their way! So give every single member that Wings ever had their due credit, how many people would go thru the unmerciful scrutiny they did to become successful?

No way am I overvalueing the unthinkable pressure of following the Beatles. imagine the pressure of every single note you record being compared to the Beatles! Imagine your very existance being compared to the Beatles, that's how it was for Wings!

Even when they did something good, it was initially bashed.

Yes they deserve the rock hall of fame!
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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby RickStark79 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:55 am

It has everything to do with Wings, cuz Wings was Paul McCartney!!

I know you see Wings as being some little band that had all the odds stacked up against and had to play these small clubs to build up their reputation, but that's not the case.

They didn't have to work their way up, they had a freaking Beatle in the band!! If you wanted to start a band and almost guarantee success, step one would be to put an in-their-prime Beatle in it!! A former Beatle who was coming off 2 top albums, and a couple huge singles by the way. Wild Life was panned by the critics, because it frankly wasn't very good, not because it was by a band that followed the Beatles.

Wings played local college halls because they wanted to -- They could've sold out Madison Square Garden if they wanted, but they chose to play small places to have fun and get some practice.
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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby Awesoman » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:56 am

I think the point being made here is that Wings has already been recognized and acknowledged through McCartney's induction into the Hall of Fame. It would make little sense to induct Wings as a separate entity since McCartney was almost completely responsible for their success. He wrote and sang *all* the hits. And aside from being a crackerjack backing band for McCartney, there is little evidence that any other band member had any significant influence on the group's overall success. The music the other members wrote and sang on posed as album filler more than anything else. And critics never bought into the facade that Wings was a true "group effort" when it was solely McCartney that was carrying all the weight and making all the decisions. Further, one only need to look at the group's interchangeable roster from album-to-album to prove that it didn't matter who was playing on the tracks; it only mattered that McCartney was writing hit records. Also, is there any doubt that McCartney would not have achieved the same level of success had he not named the band and simply released these records as a solo artist?
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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby maccafan » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:46 pm

I don't care how much McCartney was responsible for Wings success, he didn't do it by himself, he didn't go on the road by himself, he didn't record by himself, he didn't practice by himself!

No they couldn't have jumped right into something as big as performing at Madison Square Gardens and McCartney knew it. He knew that a band has to gel, to get to know one another, to practice, to play some small gigs, to work the whole thing up to a point where you're ready for the bigtime! So yes they did have to grind it out and work their way up.

We can always say if this and if that, who know if those songs would still be hits done by McCartney alone, maybe he would of taken a different approach recording by himself, recording with a band makes songs sound different. So we have to go by reality, and the reality is those songs were recorded by the group Wings!

Look at it anyway you want, but I look at it the way Paul McCartney looked at it, he said Wings was a band, he also said they worked very hard at being a band, so I take him at his word, Wings was a band, so now since they were a band by McCartneys own definition, then give them their credit as a band, plain and simple!

The case can very easily be made for the hall of fame, just look at the massive success, and I do mean massive success that they had!

Yes McCartney is in the hall of fame, but what about the time and effort the other members donated to Wings success, to deny them their credit is just not right. You can try and isolate Wings to just McCartney, but it's ridiculous to do so, McCartney along with all those members are responsible for Wings becoming the second biggest group in the entire era of the 70s.

Maybe he could of done it by himself, but the fact is he didn't, he had a group and they were known worldwide as Wings!
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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby mr h atom » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:26 pm

WAY TO GO, MACCAFAN !

what interesting points you've made... :salute
lift up your head...and remember what your life is !
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Re: Laurence Juber Makes Case For Wings in the Hall of Fame

Postby Awesoman » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:13 pm

maccafan wrote:I don't care how much McCartney was responsible for Wings success, he didn't do it by himself, he didn't go on the road by himself, he didn't record by himself, he didn't practice by himself!

No they couldn't have jumped right into something as big as performing at Madison Square Gardens and McCartney knew it. He knew that a band has to gel, to get to know one another, to practice, to play some small gigs, to work the whole thing up to a point where you're ready for the bigtime! So yes they did have to grind it out and work their way up.

We can always say if this and if that, who know if those songs would still be hits done by McCartney alone, maybe he would of taken a different approach recording by himself, recording with a band makes songs sound different. So we have to go by reality, and the reality is those songs were recorded by the group Wings!

Look at it anyway you want, but I look at it the way Paul McCartney looked at it, he said Wings was a band, he also said they worked very hard at being a band, so I take him at his word, Wings was a band, so now since they were a band by McCartneys own definition, then give them their credit as a band, plain and simple!

The case can very easily be made for the hall of fame, just look at the massive success, and I do mean massive success that they had!

Yes McCartney is in the hall of fame, but what about the time and effort the other members donated to Wings success, to deny them their credit is just not right. You can try and isolate Wings to just McCartney, but it's ridiculous to do so, McCartney along with all those members are responsible for Wings becoming the second biggest group in the entire era of the 70s.

Maybe he could of done it by himself, but the fact is he didn't, he had a group and they were known worldwide as Wings!


So going by your mind-numbingly simple and unobjective logic, Wings should be in the Hall of Fame because they "worked hard" and were McCartney's band. Sorry, but that is not valid criteria for them to be inducted. Not that I would expect you to understand.

There is a reason why some get into the Hall of Fame while others don't. If we were to put people in the Hall of Fame simply because they worked hard or had a band then *everyone* would be in the Hall of Fame and the institution would be rendered completely meaningless. Wings was indeed a successful band, but they were a backing band to McCartney. And they owe all their success to McCartney. They played Madison Square Garden because they had an established mega-star for their frontman. They wouldn't have made it to that venue on their own. Especially not based on the music they put on the albums. The band McCartney currently tours with puts out the same effort that Wings did. Should we put *them* in Hall of Fame? What about the band he had in the 80's/90's?

McCartney's success with Wings has already been recognized; there is no need to put Wings in the Hall of Fame as a separate entity. It's not going to happen.
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