Raw deal

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Raw deal

Postby Liam OSM » Fri May 17, 2002 2:55 pm

Hey there! Does anyone else think Paul has got a very raw deal out of things because John was the one who was murdered?
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Postby Ram1 » Fri May 17, 2002 2:59 pm

There's no doubt.
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Postby heyjude65 » Fri May 17, 2002 3:28 pm

Definetely
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Postby DrRobert » Fri May 17, 2002 3:50 pm

Come on! Paul's alive; it seems to me John got the raw deal dying at 40(!!) if you put things in perspective.
As for his legacy, it's only natural that John has the edge, for now; being dead he cannot mess up his work, grow old, etc, where Paul constantly runs that risk.
These things get revised over time and several years/decades from now they will both be remembered as the best of the 20th century, together and not apart.
Let's face it, they were both brilliant yet different. At the same time the beatles were so much greater than the sum of the parts, so how do you start giving one more credit than the other? I cannot, and I have tried since 1978 when I first bought a record of theirs.
Bottom line, when I'm listening to a John song, I'm convinced that John is better; same goes for Paul.
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Postby Liam OSM » Sat May 18, 2002 5:37 am

I think you have a point, DrRobert. Obviously both of them are hugely acclaimed, and always will be, and it won't matter either way in the long run if one was a wee bit more talented than the other. And I do believe Paul is more talented than John.

The point I am trying to make is that because John got murdered, his work tends to get more of the sucking up treatment. Would everyone be so enamoured by Imagine if John was still alive? Of course not - I mean, the song would obviously be popular, still, but not to the point where you know it's gonna be either Imagine of Bohemian Rhapsody winning every single "best song" poll in the world!

Wonder which song it would have been if Paul had been the one who got shot?
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Postby DrRobert » Sat May 18, 2002 9:48 am

Liam, I agree that Paul's more talented, but I think Imagine would still be the one. John had a way with words that Paul doesn't; he could come up with one-liners that stirred things up. Accordingly, he had the talent to give very timeless universal messages through his songs in such a simple yet direct way; Imagine, All You Need Is Love, Revolution, etc; John is very quoteable (is that a word?) and that's the key.
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Postby Ram1 » Sat May 18, 2002 10:59 am

You both have very valid points. And of course John got the TRUE "raw deal" by being murdered. But, Doc, I think the point that Liam is trying to make is that from his murder, John has been held up as somewhat of a martyr. And from that, many people have cast an evil eye on Paul, just for the simple fact that he's still alive. It's wrong of course, but that's just the way a lot of people think. Almost as if they're trying to give Paul a guilt trip because he's still alive. And people that were already critical of McCartney and his work, became even more spiteful after John's death.
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Postby DrRobert » Sat May 18, 2002 11:32 am

I agree Ram, but, as I said in my initial posting, John is dead and cannot damage his image through his own actions/choices; Paul can, especially since he is still active as an artist (and I hope we always will be!); and frankly Paul has made some questionable moves that you can't help but say "John would've never done THAT" for example Say Say Say with MJackson; why did he do that, for a hit? He'll never be able to shake that exactly because it was such a big hit; same with Ebony and Ivory.
There's also something else at play here. Paul has destroyed the image of an artist as a troubled, suicidal maniac that hates his life, his wife, has issues with his mother, society, etc. Paul showed that you can be a genius and also be happy, be a great father and husband. That bothers more people than you may think; and Paul's image is somewhat shaped by a lot people that write and are themsleves troubled. I can expand on this, but I hope I got the basic point across.
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Postby Liam OSM » Sat May 18, 2002 12:48 pm

Ram1, you are spot on with your opinion there. Most people tend to like their geniuses tortured or dead - Paul McCartney doesn't fall into either category, so perhaps the public try to torture him on that basis. As for one-liners, well, Paul has plenty. Everybody knows Yesterday off by heart, and Hey Jude is equally up there in cult status. But the best of the lot is that Let It Be has made an appearance in Star Trek. On some starship or other, on the ship's dedication plaque, the saying at the bottom reads "there will be an answer, let it be". Check out the Star Trek Encyclopedia, look under Dedication Plaques! I forget which starship, unfortunately . . .
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Postby scrodfish256 » Sat May 18, 2002 8:31 pm

if you look at old beatles footage, I think that john has the one liner market cornered. He was a natural wise ass. And thats what people loved about him. But, paul does get raped over the whole thing. ram is right on, people hold john as a martyr because he was killed.
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