Since 1989

Discussions of various topics about Paul not covered in the forums below.

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Re: Since 1989

Postby james1985 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:20 am

The Beatles are underrated! :-D

Seriously!
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Always comes to you, when you look for them
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Re: Since 1989

Postby garrystanton » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:04 pm

James

I totally agree- the Beatles are underrated!

I was having a discussion with someone the other day about great films, great music, you know, as you do.
This guy said- oh yeah the Beatles are ok, I suppose, but they're a bit overrated....

I was like, actually, no, (and trying to stay calm) when you consider what they achieved,
in a merely musical sense in such a short time it is nothing short of miraculous.
Man, to come up with what they did was actually a phenomenal thing. Yeah, man
the Beatles don't get the recognition they deserve...!

Strange but true

:-h
So I stood with a knot in my stomach,
And I gazed at that terrible sight
Of two youngsters concealed in a barrel,
Sucking monkberry moon delight.
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Re: Since 1989

Postby boog » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:36 pm

Funny how this thread has nearly come full circle.

I began it by implying that the last 25 years of Paul's solo work are underrated, and it evolves to the Beatles are underrated.

Once Paul passes - but ideally before, of course - I believe the quality of Paul's work from the last 25 years will be appreciated. Would love it if he would put out a "Best of" collection from Flowers on.
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Re: Since 1989

Postby Mattal1958 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:43 pm

Since I was in college, no even before that, high school (early/mid 70's), until today, I've come across many so-called "rock" fans who belittle or outright dismiss the Beatles, while they exalt, over the years and style changes, Led Zeppelin (btw, I like Zep a lot), the Allman Brothers or other southern rock bands, prog-rockers like Yes and EL&P, the New Wave and Punk flash in the pans, Grunge Gods like Pearl Jam and Nirvana, etc etc etc.

What some of them do is pick apart the individual Beatles as musicians, and laugh at them, and say so and so is a better drummer, so and so is a better guitarist, bassist, singer, etc.

Others will cite the music as nothing but mostly love songs, or "pop" songs.

What I find consistent in these music morons is their utter inability to view things in any kind of context, their complete, single railed tunnel vision. To them, rock, say, is a guy who can play guitar lightning fast for 25 minutes. George Harrison could never do that! HA HA HA HA! Then they, usually amateur musicians themselves, proceed to lecture the Beatles fan about how simple their chords were, how easy their songs were to play, etc.

I find myself wanting to STRANGLE these people. I've known them 40 years ago, and I know them still. Usually, they are snot nosed late teens/early twenties types who think they know everything about music, and about everything else, as well.

What these idiots fail to realize is, the Beatles were MORE than just their songs. They were rockers. They were great interpreters of black rock and roll and r & b. They were the first band to really become major songwriters. They were self-contained, in that they sang, wrote and PLAYED their music. ALL of it. 90% of it thru most of their career as Beatles. They could ALL sing, and two of them-- Paul and John-- are among the greatest rock and pop singers EVER. Lennon's distinctive, nasal sneer...Paul's great vocal chops and ability to alter his sound and style.

Also, they were UNIQUE PERSONALITIES. Ever listen to the average rocker (or pop star, or hip hop star, or dimwit female tart Madonna wannabee) talk? They usually have the personalities of tree stumps. Each Beatle, from John, to Paul, to George, to even Ringo, were dynamic personalities. Smart guys. Personable guys. FUNNY guys. They could have probably been a comedy group, ala the Marx Brothers, or Monty Python, had they wanted to be. The fact that they could also play, sing, and CREATE music, and GREAT music, and constantly EVOLVING and EXPERIMENTATIVE music is an amazing thing. Put all these elements together, and it's no wonder there has never been another band or group of pop entertainers like the Beatles. And, at least in my lifetime, I doubt there ever WILL be.

That's why the Beatles changed the world. Yeah, some dork from some long forgotten band might have been able to play faster and longer than George...but that was the extent of that person's contribution to music. One Trick Ponys. Most of these artists, from the past, and today, are One Trick Ponys.

The Beatles were a stable of the finest Clydesdales, Appaloosas, Arabians, and Mustangs. The cream of the cream of the crop.

I pity those who don't see this, or understand this.

I also kind of feel for Paul, and the late John Lennon, and George Harrison, for trying to follow that act. That they all did fairly well trying (misses, yes, but plenty of hits, as well) speaks well of all of them.

That Paul is STILL producing amazing music after all that...well, what can you say?
in years to come/they may discover/what the air we breathe and the life we lead are all about/but it won't be soon enough for me
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Re: Since 1989

Postby efghijiloveyou » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:35 pm

Well said, my friend, however I do have a wee small bone to pick. You said "amateur musicians will lecture the Beatles fan about how simple their chords were, how easy their songs were to play...". I admit those who don't know what they're talking about might be quick to say this, but as an amateur musician myself, I have always been vexed at the difficulty in covering the Beatles. So, I've done some poking around the internet and found some surprising info on the subject. I urge anyone who wants to read an interesting, if somewhat complicated article about the underpinnings of the Beatles music to google "soundscapes.info words and chords"- it's fascinating.
Here's a short summary: Every typical Beatles song has at least one unconventional chord progression. Often there are more and sometimes the chord sequences even come close to endangering the songs' musical comprehensibility. There is however some kind of harmonic structure beneath these remarkable chord progressions, preventing this from happening. In Beatles songs, each of the basic chords can be replaced by several other types of chords. Separated by minor third intervals, the tone of these stand-in chords show a diagonal relationship. This principal of diagonal substitution helps the listener to understand the songs musically (conventional harmonic music is usually restricted to the three basic chords whose tone material can be expanded by means of standard cadences and more or less conventional modulations. The Beatles showed it could be done otherwise! It appears the Beatles were quite innovative without even knowing how). In each song, there is a tight relation between the clusters of these stand-in chords and the semantics of the lyrics. As the meaning of the words shifts along two dimensions, the chords shift with them.

Whew! I know, wordy, right? This article, written by a guy named Ger Tillekins is loaded with this kind of info and he sites a number of music experts throughout.
All this to say, those songs ain't that easy!
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Re: Since 1989

Postby Mattal1958 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:40 am

efghij, I'm referring to brain dead guys who fancy themselves "guitarests" who play songs like "Birthday" and then say, "this stuff is easy to play!" I can't tell you how many dopes like this I've come across.

One such moron is a friend of my step daughter's (he's about 20-21). Heavy metal fan. He's in a metal band as a singer, or screamer. They just scream. Actually, their guitarist IS pretty good-- he can play conventional stuff quite well. Very talented. But HE appreciates the Beatles. The screaming singer just dismisses them as a pop boy band.

There are a lot of idiots like that walking the earth.
in years to come/they may discover/what the air we breathe and the life we lead are all about/but it won't be soon enough for me
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Re: Since 1989

Postby mhnso » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:48 am

To claim that the Beatles are underrated is imho a bit of a stretch. Don t know anyone or anything that is revered more than the moptops. It s almost like a religion. Don tvsay they are overrated...eh well .. Perhaps a tiny bit.
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Re: Since 1989

Postby oobujoobu1971 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:21 pm

Bravo Mattal, post of the year so far I think! ^:)^

Your comment about 100mph guitarists reminds me of the Dr Malcolm (Jeff Goldblum) quote from Jurassic Park, about the scientists being "so preoccupied with whether or not they could, that they didn't stop to think if they should"
Twitter - Tweets from The Beatles 50 years ago today - https://twitter.com/#!/BeatlesAt50
Last.fm - http://www.last.fm/user/OobuJoobu1971
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Re: Since 1989

Postby Mattal1958 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:52 pm

thanks, oobu...:)
in years to come/they may discover/what the air we breathe and the life we lead are all about/but it won't be soon enough for me
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Re: Since 1989

Postby blmeanie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:30 am

efghijiloveyou wrote:This principal of diagonal substitution helps the listener to understand the songs musically (conventional harmonic music is usually restricted to the three basic chords whose tone material can be expanded by means of standard cadences and more or less conventional modulations. The Beatles showed it could be done otherwise! It appears the Beatles were quite innovative without even knowing how).


As someone with zero knowledge on construction of music etc, this fascinates me. What is interesting to me I. The quote above is (I'm assuming) they accidentally built song structure "differently" and that is a piece of what absolutely separates them in history. I do wonder how much teaching or suggesting George Martin was doing, was he the puppet master on chord progression to some degree?
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