God

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God

Postby 2 of 3 » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:09 pm

Hopefully, this doesn't get out of hand. But, I'd like to discuss God. It doesn't matter what version of God you pray too, or if you believe in a higher power at all. My questions are purely innocent, and I ask them without any malice what so ever. Now, God and I don't talk. I'm sure he/she listens to me, but I've never had any reply or sign that proves anything... in my heart anyway. Some people claim that God speaks to them all time...and that may be true. My question is....why do you think some of us have "seen the light" while others are just sort of hanging around waiting to see what happens? I mean, why don't we all hear the calling? Do you think if doctors did tests on believers and non-believers, that there would be some sort of chemical change in the brain, or some sort of hormonal thing going on differently in the two? There must be a trigger somewhere. Or...is that what we're all looking/hoping for?
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Re: God

Postby chris » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:57 pm

this is a complex question, sir. one that has many nooks and crannies. i will attempt to explore as many as possible...as truthfully as i can.

there are a lot of questions we may have in life. does the big bang thoery explain all of existence? for some, perhaps. why is the sky blue? how did it get that way? could it have gotten that way without the all and powerful god? but why are so many babies born sick? why do so many innocent people suffer needlessly? why do so many people kill in the name of their god...when god is supposed to be love incarnate?

god...is faith. some may argue that god is hope as well. some are looking for meaning in their life, and they pray to god for answers. i believe, for the most part...that having faith in a higher power can only do good. if faith makes one feel better about themselves, and the world around them...then good for them. but i also think that one's faith should be an internal thing, between themselves and thier god.

having faith, however...does not give one moral judgement to decide who among us is superior, and righteous. many religeous people (okay, zealots) have predecided what is wrong and right. as if they were the final voice. that is not how it works in my view. some i know feel they are superior because they go to church regularly. they may indeed, be superior...but not for the sole reason they go to church.

if one lives their life with good deeds (evidently you get no points for good intentions)...takes care, honest care of their family, loyal to their friends, those around them, would really be glad to lend a helping hand, then what does it matter if they believe in god?

i will not insult those to whom faith is of great importance. if you are happy with your relationship...with whatever god you choose, then i think you should be happy with the choices you have made. but you should absolutle never feel compelled to make those decisions for someone else.

i had a relationship with god once. and, on behalf of god...the catholic church decided that my family was no longer welcome. that is a fairly big bump in the road to just get over (it helps not one bit...the massive cover-up by the catholic church and their alter boy affairs. but i don't want to make this about human mistakes. this is...and should be about faith)

if we could say this is about spirituality, instead of religeion...my feelings would be much more open.

i feel like i am rambling. if one needs a little perk, a little feel good...and they get it from their faith, i think thats both fine and dandy. but if one gets that feel good happy feeling from being with their family, providing food and shelter for them. if one is truthful to those around them. is generally well intentioned...but has no faith, they are every bit as admirable as those who do.

to answer the most basic of 2 of 3's answers. some get religeon because they seek it. they want to feel better. they aspire it. they feel that it will make them a better person (and maybe it will). others just aren't looking. and know what? thats okay too.

like nearly every other subject we have breached here...i think diversity is good. its healthy. i wouldn't want to live in a place where we all had the same thoughts. the same tastes. the same ideas. how dreadfully boring would that be? and if one doesn't agree with the decisions we have made...thats okay too. its okay to be different (if we could only teach our children, going through high school that).


i get the feeling if we were examined by doctors...its a fairly safe bet that we are all pretty much genetically the same.the point i have, sadly, taken so long to make...is this. the most truly qualified opinion to decide what is best for oneself....is (provided one is of sound mind and body) oneself. i am not qualified to judge what is best for everybody. i can only hope (to god?) i make the right decisions for myself. not all people are looking for answers. i hope that those who are...find what they are looking for. i hope those who don't care so much about that sort of thing are allowed the same courtesies. now who, really can disagree with that?
Last edited by chris on Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: God

Postby mommasturn » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:03 pm

Oh yee of little faith

I feel a sense of there being something that gets us through the crap of this world. Something that if we allow it will guide us to where we should be. Asking "god" for things is not a one way ticket. You don't get to say Why don't I get this? please give me this. You need to appreciate what you have (your health, your family if you are lucky enough to have one, the beautiful sky at sunrise.) We get so deep into a rut we rarely take the time to realize what we are seeking may in fact be before us. We may miss the chance meeting with a special someone because American Idol is on. We feel unappreiciated because we do not see how little others have. If we went to new orleans to help people, our little "why me god?" whining would cease because we would see we are so lucky to have each day. Not everyday is a good one, but there are more good ones to come. LIVE THEM

I have been very blessed, I can't believe how by sheer luck I saw the guy I was going to marry one year before we actually met. It was an 8 hour drive to a convention. I found this guy I had noticed the year before and I married him the following year. How does it happen that I meet someone out of the blue from another state and it is meant to be?

We have healthy kids and a decent home. We are not wealthy, but we survive the monthly checks and balances.

And we still manage to enjoy each other while getting "horizontal" as it was put in another post. :oops:


All of the bad stories in the media detract us from what is truly life worth living. When all is said and done, we all pass and move on. I look forward to every day I have left on this earth. But I hope to linger on in another place where I can look over those who are mine and help them get through the crap of this world as well.

I was given belief as a child by my family, not everyone has that. I do not agree with much in organized religion. I actually have lost some of my faith because of the things that are wrong with religions. But I can't imagine how, with all the badness and evil in this world, that humans haven't done each other in yet, without a little help from some force beyond us.

I beleive there is a god, but I don't believe any certain Religion is correct. Religion is a man made thing... human error can screw up even the best plans.
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Re: God

Postby mervap » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:25 pm

I just heard a show a few weeks ago on the subject of meditation and/or prayer and brain activity as pertains to religious experiences and feeling God's prescence. The test subjects were a hindu monk who meditated and a catholic nun who prayed. They used some kind of brain scan with about thirty sensors or something and found out that there are changes in one's brain in the lobe associated with one's feeling of identity, of individuality. The activity level in that lobe slowed considerably, leading the commentator to say that as one 'comes into the prescence of God', one's individuality begins to submerge. Now, what all this means is truly speculative and can be interpreted in different ways.
I'm in the same boat as you, 2 of 3...it would all be so much clearer if God spoke to all of us in a clear voice without other people's prisms getting in the way. I have prayed for many years and the only voice I hear is my own. The things I pray about either come to pass or they don't...a cynic might say i'd get better odds in Vegas. I've been to quite a few different churches in a couple of different countries and several different denominations...what i've seen, in a nutshell, is this: People all over the world seem to need to believe that there is a higher power and that one day, they will live with and/or become one with that higher power; that all this struggle on Earth means something and, by extension, their lives will too. That need is expressed in a huge number of different ways and with just as many different belief systems. Someone once said that all roads lead to God...just some take longer to get there...just don't leave the road. :)
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Re: God

Postby james1985 » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:51 am

chris wrote:
if one lives their life with good deeds (evidently you get no points for good intentions)...takes care, honest care of their family, loyal to their friends, those around them, would really be glad to lend a helping hand, then what does it matter if they believe in god?



well said, mr c.

i don't have faith, im an atheist, and i'm a little wary of those whose faith informs the decisions they make. I'm far more comfortable with people having a low-key religion that doesn't involve a great deal of intense interaction with their God (the Church of England, for example). I don't like the way fundamentalism is developing both in the west and the middle east - scary stuff.

What I find fascinating, however, is that people have these life-changing experiences with their god, something i cannot comprehend. I'd be really interested to know what it feels like if anyone on the forum claims to have had a deep religious experience/communication with god.
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Re: God

Postby Genuine_Indian_Guru » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:03 pm

God, man, God, well isn't God something.
I feel there most certainly is a higher power. I also feel that those departed loved ones are watching over us.

My brother is a priest...so I kinda wish he was here right now to add some thoughts. I would most certainly say I'm not a religious fellow, but I'm spiritual. Afterall I am a Guru.
I go back so far... I'm in front of me!
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Re: God

Postby mr h atom » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:47 am

dang, chris...that was....eloquent !

don't fret about the holy see...while i'm not 'excommunicated...i severed those lines alomg time ago, all by my lonesome...
and i've never looked back.
i don't want to seem like i'm picking on catholicism, either...i was given the abilty by two loving parents to 'challenge' my faith in the church...and found my, possible, faith in God stronger, but my belief in organized religion sadly mistaken.
i've done enough studying to know..there is no answer that any single church of any type can give you...there is no one religion that has it right...

good words, mommasturn...all have spoken true...and shown the face of thier father...

i, too, would add that any belief exists as a worthwhile endeavor only up to the point wherein it encompasses your own life, your own soul...any inclusion of anyone else for whatever reason shows your own lack of faith in god...

do you want your loved one to follow the path God sets out...or be forced down the one you set forth...faith is strongest only when one chooses to take that path wholly and willingly, not because they've been told to...or taught to.

i'd like to add: if there is a god, and he/she is good, then, james, you have nothing to fear or worry about...don't fret...there are many who claim to believe who will never know a 'heaven'...and there are many who claim not to believe who will never know 'hell': it is as simple as the path you live upon, not what dogmatic trek others set you upon, that makes the difference.
and so, as some have mentioned, all who actually live good, honest lives are in a far better place than those who claim to.

i don't believe for a second that a good and benevolent god, who would create all this, would do so solely to take it all away...or that he/she would 'demand' fealty...that is all so petty..all so man made...
and i certainly don't believe that god would 'talk' to people who are that shallow, self centered and petty...

as you watch the parade of life go by, 2...and you look at those who 'claim' to have conversed with god...watch closely..do they, in fact, live a glorious life, a peaceful life, an honest life...i think, you'll find...more often then not...that is not the case.

in another thread, the subject was drugs and why some people need them: well...they are a crutch..and for many, so is god...the trick is to decipher which is which.

as an interesting side note : karl rove, perhaps president bush's most ardent, loyal suppoter, resigned this week. now karl is known to have been an architect of ones of g. bush's main avenues of political power: that of the utelage of the religious, esp. the far right, to create bush's base of support. ths, many of bushs speeches, strategies, appointmnets, etc, were driven by keeping that support base happy. yet, in one of his final interviews, he professes to be much more of an agnostic ( which, actually, i don't think is the term he wishes; agbostics do not not believe in god..or christ...they, more often, are willing to give creedence to the lost, gnostic books, and, thusly, are less willing to see 'the bible' as it exists today as the true word of god.
they realize that there is alot more to the story than we are being told.) i, also, don' think he meanty atheist..rather he just meant he did not have a 'personal' relationship with god...kinda ironic, if you think about it. the guy who created the movemnet, doesn't even believe in it....

and, that, my fellow babies...should sum up all we need to know about church & god...they are two different things...think of any and all religions/churchs/synagogues/mosques/temples as nothing more than signposts...guideposts...use them all (there ARE so many paths !), if you're really smart....

but, in the end, if there is a god...only he/she can judge you and will do so on your character, your heart...your soul...NOT on your fealty
lift up your head...and remember what your life is !
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Re: God

Postby chris » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:13 pm

i'd like to take a moment to comment how gosh darn proud i am of everyone who responded to this potentially argumentative subject, all without preaching, and yet...all with real conviction. looks like we can tackle adult subjects without insulting, while (possibly) disagreeing after all.
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Re: God

Postby 2 of 3 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:51 pm

Same here chris. :salute I purposely tried to word the original thought to exclude specific religions, and just stick to the idea of a greater power...no matter how you perceive it. Cheers to all the great replies. :)
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Re: God

Postby jules » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:04 pm

Read Richard Dawkins. No god/God/higher power. Fairies at the bottom of the garden/fairy stories.
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