September 11, 2001 - In memory of . . .

[Mike]

a post of silence

[Chris Speers]

It's important to have a moment and reflect on the tragedy. I also would like to see the country move on from the tragedy, too. Focusing a whole week of activities on the event and the countless tv and replying of the horror was not our country's finest hour. A more dignified approach would have kept it simple and not over-drawn and over-exaggerated.

I'd like to see this great country move on past 9/11 just like we moved on after JFK was killed, after they attacked Pearl Harbor, and after the civil war. I don't mean to sound disrespectful or callous but this country is spending too much time and energy on the past - we have to get beyond this media hyped programming drivel of countless shameless 9/11 promotion.

We need to start being Americans again and stop being victims and cry-babies. We're turning into France or something with all of her weeping and cry-baby antics. I say that in jest - This is the Nation that gave us Patton, Sherman, and Grant and we're crying and carrying on like Liza Minnelli at her analyst session .......

[Brains]

America is also the country that gave us the paranoid Joseph McCarthy, the country that had nothing whatsoever to do in Vietnam, and that has a dangerous moron who can't construct sentences of more than five words for a president. So there. It's not like America is the greatest country in the world.

Don't get me wrong, the WTC & Pentagon tragedy was a terrible act of terrorism, Bin Laden should be brought to justice and even though I'm against the death penalty, the slowest death would be too good for him; but America should take a good look at itself too. They should stop their arrogant thinking they're the greatest country on earth and try to realise just why these Muslim fundamentalists attacked them. I'm not saying those fundies are right: but they obviously had a reason to be real pissed at America. Now that is the thing that really needs to be dealt with, of course not before Al Qaida is finished. But I fear America will go on the same way after this war on terrorism is over. And I fear that there will be a new September 11th.

[Chris Speers]

It's hard to "rationalize" the irrational. We should understand the Taliban's tendencies so that we can drop a bomb on their as#es. I think that we shouldn't attempt to rationalize the Taliban or the Muslim extermists because they are nuts. They would like to back us back to where we once belonged - yeah, take us back to the year 1,000. Did the Jews try to rationalize Hitler's insanity when he put six million of them in the gas chamber (with the implicit support of Europe and the lack of help from the goodd old USA)? or the Chinese - Chairman Mao's attempt to destruct anybody who thought on their own? It's kind of like a McCartneyologist trying to understand the off key nature of Linda's weak vocal skills on Cook of the house.

[V]
[^]

The only thing are warped Middle Eastern friends will understand (and this is something European Intelluctuals will never get) is a quick, decisive force. And that's where we need to go.

[8D]
As for Paul McCartney, i would think that he is a conservative guy who would support any action that would help prevent another 9/11. He may be a bit out of it since he thinks positive vibes, peace , and love. But, the man understands the negative energy and the evil that exists in the world. He knows Allen Klein was evil and that at times the evil and vicious John Lennon who in his purest form hurt him more than any other person in the world.

[Ram1]

Brains--I'm gonna sound lik eyour typical "All-American Boy" here, but you got a lot of things wrong, my friend.

quote:They should stop their arrogant thinking they're the greatest country on earth and try to realise just why these Muslim fundamentalists attacked them. I'm not saying those fundies are right: but they obviously had a reason to be real pissed at America.

It's almost like you are trying to rationalize what they did to us. I don't care what their "reasoning" is. They still had no right to come over here and KILL THOUSANDS of our INNOCENT people. No offense, but I'm getting pretty sick and freakin' tired of people from other countries almost "defending" the actions of Al Qaeda. Saying things like "Well, I don't agree with the attacks, but America is always so arrogant. I'm sure the terrorists had good reasons." THERE ARE NO GOOD REASONS TO COME OVER HERE AND KILL OUR PEOPLE WHO DID NOTHING TO THEM. There are a lot of people in my community who were killed at the Pentagon. Including a girl I went to high school with. There is no justification for these sweet and innocent people to be blown apart by bombs and an airplane. Their limbs being ripped from their joints. If this (God forbid) ever happened to your homeland, you better believe I wouldn't be almost "blaming" your country for the attacks. And by the way, I also take offense at people in other countries attacking our President. Sure, President Bush may not be the brightest President we've ever had, but he's far from stupid. Do I squirm at times when he is giving a speech? Hoping that he won't stumble over his words? Yes. But he's still my leader and I don't want people from other countries taking pot shots at him. Thank you.

[Steve-o]

I could not have said it any better, Ramster. In order to stay civil, I'll bite my tongue. Amazing.

[Len]

When did this forum change into a political one?

I'm sorry people, but this is where I get off this ride, as much as I've enjoyed it. I have problems with people blindly following their leader as he sets out to bring the world to the brink of destruction, for whatever reason, and no matter what country you're in. Despite this, I loved chatting about Paul and his music, and non-related stuff. But this is where I draw the line. McCartney may be conservative in many respects, but the man has always advocated peace and has always been against violence. Denying that is moronic, since he's said he does on many an occasion.

I've been to the US many times, and I love the country, the culture, the people, the cities, the countryside, and the beautiful diversity of it all. But I cannot stand the fact that some people here find it necessary to turn this forum into a pro-Bush one. The man stands for everything people in the sixties and seventies fought so hard against, including the man we all admire for his music.

Continuing to chat with people who support ideas and people I am against with every fibre of my being will not be good for my own conscience. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

So long everyone.

Enjoy your stay here.

[Ram1]

Len, give me a break, man. First of all, nobody is "blindly following their leader." The BEST thing about America is that you can openly and freely criticize your leaders. And believe me, we do A LOT of it here. And I don't "blindly" follow anyone. I made the simple statement that I do not appreciate people from other countries bashing my leader. Many non-Americans make the INCORRECT assumption that we are a bunch of arrogant, stuck-up, flag-waving idiots who are hungry for war. That, sir, is not the case. At least not for most of us. And as for Paul and his "nonviolence", sure the man prefers nonviolence. But Paul is also the man himself who said that in this certain situation, (how we were so blindly and cowardly attacked by some nutjobs), that HE HIMSELF agrees with us defending ourselves. If you want, I can get you the exact quotes. I had to do the same thing for Shinestar a while back because she didn't believe me. Better yet, just listen to Freedom. I think that says it all. I'm sorry, but I'm just so sick and tired of people who don't even live here trying to tell us, "Oh, you guys need to solve this peacefully. America is just all about killing. Settle your differences with peace, man." Well, I wish that could happen. But this isn't a perfect world. The Taliban/Al Qaeda don't respond to peace talks. Simply put, if this (God forbid) ever happens to your community, and people you went to school with were blown apart, you call me up and tell me about how you don't wanna go to war and solve matters peacefully. With that said, I sincerely hope you just don't leave the forum on account of this. The main focus here is still the music. But if something is posted about Sept. 11, you gotta expect some responses.

[Steve-o]

Bravo, Ramster!!!!!!! That is probably the best post that has ever appeared here. I get tired of the same thing you spoke about. Walk a mile in the shoes of the people affected by that senseless act of violence that happened on 9-11-01. It IS our right to defend ourselves. Period. And our President has acted with class and dignity throughout this ordeal that other countries should applaud, not rip. And Len--you'd have to expect a response some of these posts. I too, hope that you don't leave over something like that. Your comments on Macca would be greatly missed.

[Len]

Ram, with all due respect, you're not getting my point. I'm not just talking about 9/11. Whoever was responsible for that should pay for that, no doubt about it. I just wonder if avenging the lives of so many innocent people by killing so many more innocent people is the way to go. And it isn't just the so-called war on terrorism, it's all his policies that rub me the wrong way. He has rubbed me the wrong way ever since he pulled out of the Kyoto agreement. As far as Freedom is concerned, the word "fight" can mean many things, not all of them involve violence. The pen is still mightier than the sword. Violence only begets violence. There is NO excuse for violence against any innocent living being. I am deeply ashamed that my own government is behind Bush's plans for war. But in all fairness, it's a government I did not vote for. Take out Saddam? Fine, but do so without taking the lives of innocents. War always means the death of innocent people.

The point is, I came here to discuss Paul's music, and maybe shoot the breeze a little. This is not a political forum. This is not the Bush forum. And when I see people taking such strong viewpoints totally opposite to mine, I cannot in good conscience continue to take active part in this forum anymore. I did not take part in any for-or-against-Heather discussions, because I didn't see the connection to Paul's music, though I understand that discussion has a place here. But this just goes too far.

By no means do I mean any disrespect to any of the victims of 9/11, nor their relatives and friends. In ANY country, for WHATEVER reason, it would have been an act of total horror, and would have shocked me. But I don't like Bush's policies. Last time I checked, I was still allowed to say that. And I don't like the fact that people who speak their minds about that are being attacked by others, using words like "he is still my leader". I am not trying to make you see things my way, because I know you wouldn't do that to me either. But I still feel that this discussion doesn't belong on this forum, and to be honest, it has spoiled things for me a great deal.